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Hi! Welcome to the Law & Order wiki, Season Fourteen!

I've noticed that you've already made some contributions to the wiki – thanks for your edit to the List of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit Ripped from the Headline episodes page! We all hope that you'll enjoy our activities here and decide to join our community.

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Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! 31dot (talk) 03:51, February 14, 2018 (UTC)

Recent Rip Waves[]

I've put up a lot of new rips lately in the three major franchise shows, you'll believe I've gotten pretty wild. Before I do too much more, do you wanna check over my edits? If you have questions, I'll try to get back to you with answers. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 19:22, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

  • I know you're just "letting" me "have" the SVU headline rips, but are you sure there's nothing you wanna do with them or discuss about them? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 09:08, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

FandomDesktop rollout[]

Hey S14! As above, I have been working on the wiki for the new FandomDesktop skin. Have you been using this? If not, you can access it via Special:Preferences under the Appearance tab. Please view the wiki in light and dark themes and if you feel it's ready to migrate to the new skin, please click "Mark as ready" on the right rail on Special:Admindashboard (viewed in the new skin) to let us know we can migrate the wiki when rollouts start. Any questions, please let me know! :) --Spongebob456 talk 16:35, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, just checking you received this. Due to the urrgeency of this as I want to makke sure we have as much enginneering suppport as possible come rollout which we may not have if we rollout later, I will press the Mark as ready button on Saturday unless I hear back from you. Thanks! --Spongebob456 talk 09:35, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Nico Grey[]

Only one line, in need of deletion. The preceding unsigned comment was added by ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk • contribs).

ContributingHelperOnTheSide[]

The aforementioned user is again screwing up the ripped from the headline pages with VERY arbitrary similarities, breaking the rules, and nobody does a thing. ThomasBisaschi (talk) 15:05, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

So as to not let another fallout happen, I'll list hear why I kept Alton Coleman, Debra Brown, and Gary Lee Sampson: Sampson was diagnosed with dyslexia and had similar bullying in his childhood to Jerome Davis. I figure the ending scene and the car massacre fits Sampson. Coleman and Brown are essentially a Charles Starkweather and Carol Ann Fugate of another race. Similar relationship backgrounds, similar sprees both couples collaborated in. Not being racially biased in saying Coleman and Brown, Tamara Bates has similar abuses to Coleman and Davis has similar intellectual troubles to Brown. Genders were basically reversed in dom/sub criminal roles and each character's troubled backgrounds, so it fits them as a couple and spree even more than Bonnie and Clyde. I just didn't erase Bonnie and Clyde since they were mentioned and maybe you see likenesses.
And ThomasBisaschi, duke it out with me on my page, leave Season Fourteen alone. His page shouldn't be crowded, I've already done more than plenty in that, so take it up with me and we can talk and debate it out, preferably without exasperation or imposition. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 07:46, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

FOR GOD'S SAKE BLOCK THIS USER OR HE WILL KEEP BREAKING YOUR RULES AND SCREWING UP THE RIPPED FROM THE HEADLINE PAGES! Don't you see? I don't mean to be rude, but it's been almost two months and he keeps ignoring the rules concerning arbitrary similarities with real-life cases. What are you going to do? Let him screw up the pages even more? ThomasBisaschi (talk) 14:17, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Discord[]

Hey S14! Are you on Discord? --Spongebob456 talk 18:35, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

No, I am not, nor do I plan on being on there. Why? Season Fourteen (talk) 18:36, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Sorry for my late reply! I ask as live chatting can be really useful for collaborating on things. It's totally fine if you don't want to though, not compulsory. :) --Spongebob456 talk 16:08, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Youtube vids[]

Seems like you reverted my Youtube video additions. Any particular reason? Alsocal (talk) 21:10, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I was planning on telling you sooner, but Wikia started to lag on me. Anyway, it's definitely not a good idea to post videos that are not your own on here without permission from the original owners. That could constitute a copyright violation. Season Fourteen (talk) 21:14, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
I would think this would be allowed though since they are from the official L&O and they allow embeds? Alsocal (talk) 23:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
I can help you with the dilemma: the excerpts are from the Peacock streaming service, which Law and Order and other productions have given permission to release with the fitting copyrights. Season Fourteen is concerned although the rights are for the streaming service YouTube channel, he doesn't know if embeds are copyright infringements of that distribution. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 23:52, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
I get where it might be worrisome, but at the same time NBC Universal/Comcast could have disabled embeds if they didn't want people posting clips on other web sites. It is not an issue with you guys but with the overly abused copyright system in the United States. Alsocal (talk) 01:36, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
I actually agree with you it's not too much of a problem. The short clips aren't sold and can be freely streamed and distributed, so there's no infringement. If Season Fourteen isn't worried, maybe it's from general site activity, including my own, that's overwhelming to handle. Or just not finding it acceptable in site formatting. But I can't tell you for sure, Season Fourteen can speak for themselves and makes one of the final calls, you'll have to get more info from them. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 02:24, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
I strongly prefer if we err on the side of caution and try to get permission from the channels. Inclusion of any sort of content or media that features official logos should be approached with extreme care. Season Fourteen (talk) 03:13, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1TXbXEwxru6_ceL-WJZk4g Here we are. The official channel. Hopefully some information here offers more a description. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 03:59, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Headline Rips Again Reply[]

I'm not "justifying" myself, I'm giving you more an explanation to clarify the details to you so it doesn't overwhelm you later on: you probably saw it's not my intentions to edit war or to flood pages with content, but I own up to my responsibility for turning it into that. I'm sorta "hard-boiled detective", per se, about this like you are, in that I'm just trying to go through the tasks at hand, not let it get persona, etc., but my apologies for going out of your scope of management.

I still believe you need more help on the site, you're the major admin running the regulations, it's only fair you're not alone in this if it you're carrying. As for the rampant headline rips, going into trouble with matching our schedules to talk and me not always knowing where admins and other users are designated in the past would just be beating those points. So I'll go into my culpability: with a lot of time between me making the edits and you being on the site, and with not trying to flood your talk page with new notices of content, it was hard to gather things together, present them, take it at careful paces. I tried, I was carefully watching the material, the dates, at first the amount of content I was leaving as well. But long story short, I'm bad with organization in my memory, and I likely have undiagnosed clinical issues as well as a crippled, foggy psyche for past and current situations on my end I won't rant on about the details of. I was worried I'd forget, have problems with formatting and presenting it all, so yeah, I wasn't watching my own worry-wart state either. I meant to keep it at a few edits, but then they grew, you needed to wait longer, so I figured the least I could do was whatever I added, I could try to get the details and keep to the page coding and formatting. I'd have been ready, still am, to tell you about the cases and references I left. Don't pity me, really, don't, I'm just telling you what you need to know so you can decide for yourself whether you care or not and if there are things you wanna meet in the middle on, I'm saying this I openly just to inform you.

Fair is fair, I left you with too much work, you'd rather make the final calls, rather not have me list to you the rips I find, the pages are yours, I won't even fight you on them after the month's user-bars are over. I'm ready to discuss the details and sort out the content in a collaboration.

And complain, no. User:ThomasBisaschi's not causing a sockpuppet raucous, all I'd say is what I already have, that you have your own pace and process and to get off your back over taking site management as a "life or death" matter. Though best at this point you speak for yourself if you need that, so my apologies for, uh, stealing the words out of your mouth, if you will. Even though his notes and outrage are the last thing that lead to your most recent response, you're not "siding" with either of us, you're trying to be professional and assign us or roles. It's the management of that that's gotten harder. So hoping for better activity and less of the preceding amplifications going forward. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 00:24, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Rip List, Description Errors, and Necessary Site Information[]

In the spirit of collaboration and such collaboration of checks and balances, would you like me to leave a comprehensive list of all I've found? I've saved the records in a document I have on file, I can compile them into a presentable list and tell you the resources I found them on.

On two other notes, in the vigilantes category, I should clarify my edit is to show the intentions of the characters in question, not the other characters they targeted. It's also why I removed a few pages from the category, they obviously don't fit. Also, would you be alright with clarifying for me why you deleted the three pages I left in Possessed? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 15:13, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Having seen Possessed, I must say those three articles weren't all that necessary. We only create articles for characters-of-the-week who played major roles in the cases. Season Fourteen (talk) 02:40, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
They were minor roles, yes, but the characters still had some part in the story. And particularly, I thought of adding Sabrina Carpenter's character since she's not famous, but I get how even that's a more obsolete addition. If you wanna leave the vigilante categories description, I won't go into that more. But I still do hope to know if I should compile a list of headline rips for you.
And I thought of one other thing: "For the Defense" was cancelled, but for records and posterity, could I or some other user perchance list a mention of it somewhere in site pages? Maybe recreate the page but give the information that was publicized? It still seems crucial to now just as an idea of Wolf Entertainment's timelines, but I'd agree with what you'd go by in that it should have better placement in whatever page it's found in as well as its formatting. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 04:48, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
No thanks, and no. A summary of the canceled show is fine at this point. Season Fourteen (talk) 04:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
Where would the cancelled show summary go? In the franchise page? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 08:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
Yes. Season Fourteen (talk) 17:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
And full disclosure, maybe you missed another con artist rip I left in the original Law & Order: under Flaw, I put Mike DeBardeleben, for Patrick Sullivan. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 11:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
Again, I know you don't specialize in Criminal Intent. Do you know other users who I can ask about what I added in the headline rips that you haven't erased yet? I won't leave you a list, I figure you'd be more exasperated me not taking the hint. And should I leave mentions in more pages of the unaired episodes Cooked and Unstoppable. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 18:13, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
Thomas is the only user I know who is consistently on top of these things, so you'll have to ask him. Season Fourteen (talk) 05:21, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
Uh...I've been sifting through various searches and criteria to find the rips I came across, do I not count? I was asking for the sake of a discussion and an official stamp, but I'm not wrong about a lot of the rips that I left you've since erased, but I still accept you need to proof-read them. In fact, you hold similar resentments to Bisaschi that you do to me regarding headline rips and checks and balances, neither of us make much of differences. I'm just more blunt and restless, he's more personally passionate past thresholds. So honestly, all that's missing is official conclusion. Only you can edit the pages for the month, so I'm leaving you notice about where my CI edits are. The preceding unsigned comment was added by ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk • contribs).
How about the unaired episodes, do I add them to the seasons they would've been in? Not necessarily in tables, but do I leave "trivia" mentions or put them in some other formatting? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 09:49, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
Yes. Season Fourteen (talk) 01:00, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

On one more notice, I should tell you a disclaimer about ripped from the headlines, actually a trend I noticed when searching for articles: many rips were found to have been covered by New York Times, and I maybe saw a few from an LA times or tribune. But definitely NYT, it's where I found the rips for Contact, Risk, and Beautiful Frame. I know you rely on Wikipedia, but it could be a crucial resource. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 21:48, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Since you said you rely on Wikipedia most to check your facts, should I tell you the news articles I found with missing rips? So you don't stress having to look for yourself when researching. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 13:18, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
Here's the coding I had for the three episodes, in order:
Contact|Based on a reported Brooklyn case of a serial rapist targeting women and girls around public transportation in Park Slope and Carroll Gardens.
Risk|Based on numerous major busts of transatlantic heroin and cocaine rings based in New England, England, Central America, and the West Indies, with ruses of women traveling with babies while smuggling the drugs disguised as baby products.
Beautiful Frame|The Seemona Sumasar/Jerry Ratmattan case.
All three have articles in the NYT not long before the episodes were aired. Ned Bogden's nickname "Bedtime Butcher" also sounds uncanny to "Bedroom Basher" Gerald Parker, and Eugene Hoff's murder and entombment of John Kramer for money is similar to Jeffrey Lundgren's family annihilation. Do you want me to run Diamond Dogs past ThomasBisaschi? There I found Christopher Dimeo/Nicole Pearce. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 01:27, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
If you'd ask, no I won't regularly leave notices here. I'm being careful and just leaving the few references here while the month-long page bars are still up. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 01:34, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
I spoke with a Fandom councilor, he actually gave a fitting suggestion: instead of warring on pages, the site could have talk pages to fill with debates instead of the lists or user pages and whatnot. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 15:10, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
It can be like "murder boards": no matter how messy the text gets, if it fits the formatting and the process of discussion and deduction, it's worth it. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 15:32, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
Just the one notice, but for with a criminal as high caliber as Abel Hazard, I figure I should leave that I'm seeing correlations to Hazard's murders and a horrifically graphic movie named The Killing Gene or W Delta Z. I'm not trying to provoke, I'm just saying maybe you'd like the notice of the uncanny backstory, M.O. scene staging, even a calling card of three math symbols W Delta Z. That's it, for if you wanna check it out and add it if you agree. I'm getting back to articles, no need to sweat this. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 22:48, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
Just for the record. I strongly agree with the Lundgren and Dimeo/Pearce similarities, they're spot on. I could never find the inspiration for Diamond Dogs. Thank you. ThomasBisaschi (talk) 20:52, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
Thank you too for your support. It's not hard for me, I just go by the episode crimes and other aspects, isolate either the factors alone or do it with the dates the episodes would've been filmed, which would've been around the time writers did their research. It can be as simple as news articles or public forum references. It can be hard to provide all the fitting cases in a full presentation in such a short time. With Lundgren, I just got lucky and didn't even guess beforehand, I never knew the cult until that point. But it fills in important blanks. And I believe educates everyone on where even Wolf Entertainment has crossed lives. You've done great in several cases yourself, you did figure out Jones (CI). I was almost lost on that episode. And you'e also right in Robert Napper isn't even close to Wally Stevens. I was wrong about "Black Widows", I rushed and didn't see the date. Napper fits Uncle best being derived from Brent Allen Banks. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 21:41, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
"The Christopher Dimeo/Nicole Pearce/Maryann Taylor case" would be more appropriate, since Dimeo's mother Maryann Taylor also had a role in the robberies/murders, and indeed the mother is the main antagonist of "Diamond Dogs". ThomasBisaschi (talk) 15:59, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Bots[]

You ever had signs that could say where the sockpuppet bots come from? Any recurring tells? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 20:20, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

I can't track down their IPs, but I know it's them based on the constant questions they ask. They never really change up the choice of words. Season Fourteen (talk) 20:30, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, like my own activity. Lots of accounts seem to be pretty predictable. Any way I can help? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 21:11, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
Just be on the lookout for any users who ask very general questions about the franchise. Like, no specific details whatsoever; they want to know if they can ask questions first. Also, they may ask if anyone has the franchise on DVD or something like that. Season Fourteen (talk) 00:52, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
Seems recurrent enough to notice. I don't give a damn already if it's not about site management and/or it's unethical. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 01:07, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Vanguard[]

Hello! I'm Zacatero, and I represent Fandom's Vanguard volunteer team. We help communities adopt to new technologies and features and to improve their technical performance. We have spotted some code issues on this wiki that I’d like to make fixes to, which should not break anything further nor affect the wiki content.

If you have any questions, or this is the wrong venue for this kind of a discussion, please let me know. Thanks! Zacatero • (Talk) • 15  15 16:07, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Community Connect[]

Hey there! Can I confirm you received an email re Community Connect please? May be in spam and it's to the email associated with your Fandom account. Thanks! --Spongebob456 talk 15:40, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

No, I have not. It's not even in my spam folder. Season Fourteen (talk) 01:58, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Deleted Pages[]

If you can, please restore the pages for Cat (Sugar) and Susan Oestricher. I posted the pages for specific reasons regarding the significance of the episodes' contents. Cat's the lead for the geocaching hunt, which is where Emily Keefe's corpse was found. It's crucial to note her since she was part of the investigation and assisted the detectives with a timeline for the crime. I didn't even put the two players who found Keefe dead, Cat had more of a role and was more glaring a witness. I know you won't lean on my headline rips, but I also find it significant that dead people were found during geocaching hunts around the time the episode was being filmed. And Susan Oestricher is more than a unoriginal murder victim, because she was diagnosed with cancer and turned the medical remedy of marijuana into a drug business. The fact that was a suspected motive for her rape and murder, it was my prerogative that she's entitled to a page. At least please respond to my notice here. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 03:29, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

I also factor in screentime when it comes to the notability of character articles. Cat only appeared for no more than ten minutes in that episode, judging by the summary of that article, so she could just be mentioned briefly in another article. As for Sarah, dealing marijuana isn't exactly a very big crime nowadays, and it most certainly pales in comparison to murder and rape, so therefore, that's not notable. The only reason a murder victim-of-the-week would have an article is if they are a confirmed murderer and/or rapist. Season Fourteen (talk) 03:34, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
You're missing my point. But let's start off with your timing argument. Cat has two video appearances, one cloaked, and her facetime appearance, that gives her enough of a personality. She was also mentioned before her appearances and behind the scavenger hunt that led to the murder victim's body being found in the first place, her video of the suitcase drop being used in the investigation to find the exact time and train. That's more than facetime, she's also crucial to the opening investigation and a brief suspect regarding the murder. I won't mention dead people in geocaching in real life again, you can go Google it yourself if you wanna see it to believe it.
And Susan Oestricher's more than a marijuana dealer. Same thing with Cat, in fact, she has even more of a story to herself than Cat does. She's a cancer patient found out to have been selling weed, during times when it wasn't legal, and her rape and murder was briefly suspected to have been tied to her enterprise. It took time sifting through her business and asking around the apartment complex to find a neighbor who led the detectives to the real killer and accomplice. For that storyline alone, she should get a page because it fills in details about the episode before it takes a turn worth being in compiling an encyclopedia of information regarding the franchise. What I wrote also doesn't give too much away before the episode can be watched. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 05:48, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
Episode summaries would better reflect everything you just said. I do strongly recommend filling out episode summaries to round out everyone else with no articles, because we're not creating articles on EVERYONE based on all of that. Articles with only one or two paragraphs to their name, with no potential of expansion, shouldn't be articles at all. Season Fourteen (talk) 05:52, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
Fine. So be it. Oestricher's info is already on the summary, but not Cat's. I'll cover a bit of that. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 06:08, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
Oh my god. Alright, since you deleted Annette Kay and you don't see the point about discussing each page, do you have general criteria for relevant pages from your perspective alone? I figure you'll block me without warning if this continues, and you trying to "crack down" on that would really be pointless. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 06:20, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
I'll say it again, do you have specs of preferred character pages? Tell me directly please, or I won't know which pages you'll spruce and which you'll delete. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 03:11, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
And Ann Jackson's page says almost the exact same thing and she gets even less facetime than Linda! You didn't delete Ann's page, how is she "relevant over" Linda?! Dammit, will you answer my questions or do I have to keep bouncing between admins across Fandom to fix the site?! ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 02:21, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
I did not know you created an article for Ann. My apologies; my email apparently doesn't filter every notification, because it seems like I missed a few messages from you and others. Anyway, I already did describe my criteria to you above. The characters predominantly need to have appeared from beginning to end in the episode and play major roles wherein they're constantly active (e.g. not in comas and whatnot) and they don't leave the screen for more than a few minutes at a time. Exceptions to the rule are if the characters in question committed a major felony such as murder and rape that kick-starts the episode in question. Season Fourteen (talk) 03:03, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
Basically, the question you should ask yourself before you create a character article is if there's enough standalone material for the article that cannot be mentioned in other character articles, lest they take up too much space and cause those existing articles to go off-topic. Or, to put it another way, does their name keep popping up in the episode plots because they're doing something that directly affects the case. Season Fourteen (talk) 03:07, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the criteria, but you do realize you're apologizing for missing an article of mine you were going to delete already, yes? I get what you mean, but you have trouble keeping a consistent perspective and communication to work by. I know you hold your life above this, which can be healthy and definitely mean more than being a placeholder here, but there are officially recurring problems on the site here you can't watch over completely and you're even making mistakes over yourself. It's human, not shameful or spiteful, not vindictive or leaving you with more work, but the site needs more extensive management, and you really need to not take on your shoulders making all the calls even when you could miss opportunities for formatting and information, your back isn't the only one it can break. For starters in how I can make it easier for you, shall I link you the articles I've made so far if there are any more you find should be erased? Even if I still bite my tongue on relevance and article material. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 03:29, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

I know you deleted Kaley Sellers, but she's basically the central victim throughout the episode. If you also look at the list I left ThomasBisaschi, you'll see the real life relations to people and cases I picked out, notably Elizabeth Smart and the virginity auction I found. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 23:49, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Deleted Images[]

Mind me asking why you've deleted the recent images in character pages? I know the user's had several accounts, though I find their danger debatable, is there something about the pictures that means they can't be kept in the site? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 18:00, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Ah so that's what it was[]

Got a notification that you edited my talk page but only saw the automated welcome message from back in 2013, so I was really confused as to why it decided to just now notify me on the eight year old edit until I saw you reverted something lol

Booyahhayoob (talk) 23:24, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

A sockpuppet targeted your talk page, so I had to revert their edits. Season Fourteen (talk) 23:28, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Headlines vs. Pages[]

For the record, you should know I missed you wanted me to never go for the headline rips again. I was thinking while you had the blocks in place for the pages until you could sort through the material, that actually is my bad. Thanks for clarifying, but I still wasn't trying to aggravate. If you wanted the rips listed for you to go through, that's why I filled the talk pages. You got your wish in that I'm still going through missing articles, but that doesn't mean if and when the pages can be openly debated, I hope there's a responsible collaboration behind them. I've already spoken to Fandom council and Renegade54, who's currently busy on Memory Alpha. The council has general info on user altercations, but they still say to address it locally and to wait for Renegade54 to return. In the meantime, you'll be seeing me filling in more blanks for character pages, so expect that much. And also, if you're going to delete character pages you find irrelevant, let me know and please tell me what your concerns are. I'm on a community wiki and trying to collaborate, the communication is only fair if you object against the pages I make and I don't even know what the guidelines are. You will have to spell it out for me because I don't speak your language or you mine. The better we talk to each other, the better and more the higher-quality posts. (This is longer than I originally meant, but in retrospect, at least all the detail are on the table to discuss through.) ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 04:47, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Don't call the last straw, don't block me, don't erase the material. This time, I have it backed up, so it's not like I can't present the case again. But ThomasBisaschi has a list of my headlines rips suggestions. Not just random suggestions, but I've compiled resources that support the evidence. You can look it over yourself. I left it there so they can look it over and we can talk it out. That's my truce. So don't count your chickens and just take in what I posted before you react just because you're concerned I'm breaking your rules. I'm keeping to the site's necessary missing pages and information. That doesn't mean I won't talk it out to collaborate. And if you do bar me and erase all the findings I left, Fandom admins will also have copies to review. This isn't an edit war if it's in the talk pages right now, better to take it in steps based off the material. I'm back to the missing articles. If Bisaschi wants to discuss it with me, I'll speak with him in Q&A communication and we can argue our cases to each other to compromise. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 02:33, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Asunder[]

Any chance you can change the information for the character pages in the episode? There's a problem with putting it all on the wife as the facts of the abuse and who abused who are left ambiguous since they both got into violent altercations with each other, like the real life case it's based off. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 08:55, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. My apologies for interjecting into you noting Jtab7800 in handling the summaries. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 04:22, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Jtab7800[]

Is there a chance you can simply move the headers for the summary and plot sections when the user makes a full plot? The transposition could save a lot of corrective work. Unless there's more formatting concerns. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 07:03, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Not really. In most cases, there's already a fully-developed plot section and the summary sections are still being expanded for no good reason. Season Fourteen (talk) 21:06, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
I didn't see that. I was assuming Jtab7800 was leaving plots, just in the wrong header and with two many quotes. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 00:21, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

My honest explanation[]

I hope I'm doing the links in this message the right way, because I've only recently gotten an idea of how to do them. I am user jtab7800 (talk). In order to bring about some understanding into this, I'm reaching out in hopes that you can take the time to patiently read this, and we can come to an understanding, without any hostility. I hadn't been able to put anything on Season Fourteen's talk page until now, because I was blocked for three days. Please try to remember that everything I say in this message is with a calm tone of voice -- calm, yet with emphasis at times. There are no sarcastic words in this message.

Almost 20 years ago, I was diagnosed with a high-functioning form of autism called Asperger's Syndrome. If you're not sure what that is, or if you don't know enough about it, you can research it by going to the Wikipedia link that I just put in this message, or using a search engine to find information about it from various other sources, because Wikipedia probably doesn't have all of the knowledge that there is on it. In people with Asperger's Syndrome, the signs and symptoms can vary with different people, but we're just as human as anyone else is.

Because I have Asperger's Syndrome, my brain is mapped a little bit differently than what you're probably used to seeing. In my case, I have a tendency to get confused by some things -- things that people think I should be absolutely perfect at understanding.

At the time when I got the message about being blocked, I hadn't been on Fandom long enough to know that I have a talk page under my user name, and I didn't discover my talk page until after getting blocked, so I didn't know that there were messages on it. I'm still trying to get used to the current look that Fandom started going with this year. At the time when I first joined Fandom, when it had its previous look, I didn't see anything about having a talk page. That's why the block came as a surprise to me, because, at the time, I honestly had no idea what I did or didn't do. All I saw was the word "insubordination." If there was any insubordination there, it was unintentional.

Disregarding your messages on my talk page was never intentional. I'm sorry that I didn't see them. I just had no idea that I had a talk page. I finally found out that I have a talk page, and I just now read the topics on it. They sounded a bit hostile, and the way some of those words were said made me feel like a pile of elephant crap. At least now I know how to tell if I have a message on my talk page or not, by looking at the lower left corner of the web page to see if there's a little number on the logo that looks like a bell. I just never saw it before. It was an honest mistake. For me, being on Fandom has been a learning process that shouldn't have to be harsh -- definitely not harsh for someone with any kind of disability. For some people, a learning process can be slower than it is for other people. No two people are exactly the same. I'm sorry that I didn't instantaneously know that I had a talk page. Making hasty assumptions and jumping to conclusions, such as automatically assuming that I knew about having a talk page, is never really a good thing. People who haven't been editing on Fandom for very long can't be expected to instantaneously learn everything, and instantaneously be all-knowing about editing on the site. Even people in my own family have, in my life, made me feel like I have to try to be nothing less than perfect for everyone.

If I knew that I had a talk page, I would've seen your messages sooner, and responded to them. Maybe you wouldn't have sounded so angry on my talk page if you had any way of knowing that I'm a bit new to some aspects of the Fandom site. I haven't tried my hand at editing very often, and I'm still learning. In things like that, sometimes, someone has to show me the way, but not in an unfriendly way.

In a lot of the seasons, some episode pages are confusing -- they have only a summary section, or only a plot section, instead of having both summary and plot sections, so I was honestly not sure what to do. I might've even seen the plot put above the summary, or the summary put above the plot on an episode page. It seems that there is confusion on some episode pages, in various seasons, that needs to be cleared up. I'm new enough to where I haven't been sure how to add a section to an episode page. I realize that maybe I don't know as much as I should about Fandom. For my mistakes that were caused by confusion, I apologize. I am truly sorry. I never had any bad intentions for this wiki. But having the best of intentions seems to always get people in trouble.

Just so you know, I've never been afraid to admit a mistake. But I feel horrible about this mistake, and I've been feeling worse about it every day. I'm sorry that I didn't know exactly what to do with summaries or plots, and I'm sorry that I didn't know that I did my editing style the wrong way.

I know that there are people who find it to be nothing less than irritating that people with Asperger's Syndrome sometimes need a little more of a helping hand with some things than so-called "normal" people. That's why I'm used to people so easily getting angry at me frequently.

The day I started my edits, August 12th, was the day that my father would've turned 72-years-old if he was still alive, and I felt like I needed something to do to get my mind off of things, and pass the time on such a depressing day. Once I got started editing, I couldn't stop. That kind of thing is known to happen with some people who have Asperger's -- not being able to bring yourself to stop, once you get started on something. I'm sorry that some of us with Asperger's are like that. And I don't know why I feel like I have to apologize for anything that comes with having Asperger's.

There's a lot of crap that people with Asperger's Syndrome have to face in a world that clearly doesn't understand us. We definitely are known for sometimes paying incredible attention to detail in things.

It's not unusual for people with Asperger's to be able to lock a lot of knowledge into their own minds. I've spent my life soaking in knowledge of TV, movies, music, and video games, but I don't brag and boast about it -- I simply try to find ways to share my knowledge.

Like I said, I've never been afraid to admit that I'm not perfect, and I've never been afraid to admit that I do make mistakes, because I'm only human, and perfection cannot be expected. But it seems that every time I try to share my knowledge about anything, on any site, such as Fandom or Wikipedia, I get a pretty unfriendly response from other users. That's something that, unfortunately, I'm used to, because, in my experience, I haven't known very many people to be friendly to someone with Asperger's.

For example, I tried to share some of my knowledge of one of my favorite shows, Criminal Minds, on Wikipedia a few years ago, by making some smaller edits, with the best of intentions, and another user told me, in an extremely rude way, to stop what I was doing. It took a few years for me to bring myself to be able to not be afraid of editing anything on any website again, and I recently made a couple of minor edits on a couple of pages on Wikipedia.

Fandom seems to be a different story. Like I said before, I'm not exactly the most experienced when it comes to editing the way it's done on Fandom. After a few years of being afraid of editing on any editable website anymore, out of fear that I might run into another unfriendly encounter, I tried to get back to doing it, and I end up running into a problem that has at least a couple of similarities to what happened to me with Wikipedia a few years ago. I felt a bit of deja vu.

One thing that people with Asperger's face, on a pretty routine basis, is being bullied in places such as school, or at a job, or a lot of other kinds of places where they're among a group of peers who don't understand them. I'm one of the aspies who has had to face all of that, and as a result of the deep emotional and physical scars from it, every time something like this happens, I end up laying low for a while before doing anything again. I'm already on the brink of giving up on everything in my life, because nothing in life has ever panned out for me before, and it's because of my disability.

I can't help but wonder if the world we live in has ever been conducive to anyone who has to live with anything like Asperger's Syndrome. No one who has Asperger's Syndrome had ever asked to have Asperger's, which is something that people who have it are born with. I know that I didn't ask to have Asperger's.

I had tried not to let this incident with the Law & Order Wiki scare me away from editing anything for a few years, like it did with Wikipedia, but I feel like I'm losing that battle.

With a completely unfeeling killer known as Covid-19 brutalizing the entire world for so long, I have sought refuge either in my music, as I'm learning to play guitar, or in my favorite places on the internet, which concern TV, music, movies, and video games. Those sites include various wikis on Fandom.

I know that the pandemic has driven everyone close to the very brink of their sanity -- me included -- and it has caused too many people to actually start being meaner to each other than they used to be, which is one of this world's biggest problems. But I've always tried to keep a kind heart towards others, even those who don't show such a kind heart towards me.

Fandom has always been one of my favorite sites, even when it was called Wikia. For a long time, I only browsed, instead of joining and trying my hand at any editing. Last week, I decided to take a shot at editing something again, this time on Fandom instead of Wikipedia, only for it to fall through. Once again, for what I've done, I'm sorry.

I've always had a hard time trusting that people in the world that we live in can be friendly to someone with Asperger's, and sometimes, things happen that lower that trust level even more. I'm leaning towards not doing anymore editing on any editable websites, because maybe I'm just simply not cut out for it. This situation is far from being the first time in my life that I've ever felt like I can't do anything right, no matter what it is I'm doing at the time. What's likely is that I'll be away from editing for a long while, to sort some things out. What's even more likely is that I won't be doing anymore editing at all on this wiki, let alone any other wiki on Fandom. There's a very miniscule possibility that I might return on some other wiki on Fandom, but I honestly don't know just yet. I need some time to think about whether I will or not. In the meantime, I wish everyone well. The preceding unsigned comment was added by jtab7800 (talk • contribs).

If it helps, the wiki's already in turmoil and the users don't always care to discuss, let alone compromise. It's not all your weight to carry, that should help going forward. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 12:04, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Text Formatting[]

If you could kindly change some of the text in a few rips from the headlines, "rape cops" should be "NYPD rape cops" in Internal Affairs (SVU) to specify, and Jesse Pomeroy has been nicknamed "The Boston Boy Fiend", so that should be added in as well. For Confidential, John Button to John Button. And Francis Duffield Shelden in Monster's Legacy has a Wikipedia page. I also made two mistakes: Surrender Benson isn't Robert Garrow, but Paul John Knowles (a.k.a. "The Casanova Killer"). The crime spree's a closer fit. And in Trials, 80s made-for-TV movie Sin & Redemption (with Cynthia Gibb) either coincides with Diary of a Rapist or is the right allusion instead of it. Sin & Redemption is allegedly based on a real crime and storyline. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 09:28, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Three more: the "controversial debate" in Inheritance, it's basically, technically nature vs. nurture, has its own article. So does The murder of Terry King in A Story of More Woe, whose murder was also the partial inspiration for Repression. "Ethical controversy" should be "ethical debate" in Inconceivable, since embryo cryopreservation is a popular practice more than it is a controversy at fertility clinics, if we're talking the politics even of how the show would describe it.ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 06:18, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
Since sex tourism is a thing to, it should be included in the Angels rip panel. Both in laws and controversy. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 16:58, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Can you tell me why you keep deleting the information of Michael K. Williams having a scar on his face, especially since it's relevant to his publicity and even his career? Tommy Flanagan has his scars talked on his page, which I figure you'd also delete just from reading this here. Can I hear reasons, please? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 05:11, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
Scars aren't too important in the grand scheme of an actor page. Only the roles they played on the franchise and what kind of notable roles they played in their career. Season Fourteen (talk) 05:17, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
I won't bicker at that, it's trivial. Anything else I need to tell you or do regarding the above notes in the section here? Like regarding adding links to the articles mentioned or changing the references I got wrong? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 05:45, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
Would discussing the section here with other users be proficient and cut back on the checks you have to make and don't always have the time for? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 07:35, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Checking in[]

Hey S14! Just wanting to check in and see how things are going. How are things on L&O Wiki? --Spongebob456 talk 09:16, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Things are good. Season Fourteen (talk) 00:15, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
Great! I see you left me a welcome message, are you using a script for that or doing it manually? --Spongebob456 talk 08:58, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
I do it manually with a template. Season Fourteen (talk) 08:59, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Invite[]

Hi again, did you receive an email sent last week I believe inviting you to The Downstream on September 10th? The email is titled "[The Downstream] Ask Fandom Anything, Social Media Tips, and Data Insights". I just want to confirm you received the email as it's a great opportunity and we know Fandom outreach emails sometimes land in spam. Thanks! --Spongebob456 talk 10:36, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Reversal of my removal crossover on episode SVU Serendipity[]

Hello, I was wondering why you reversed my removal of the crossover category in the SVU episode Serendipity. I searched everywhere and there is no other show that this episode crossovers with. It is also not mentioned or specified anywhere on the page that it is a crossover episode. So, can you please indicate what show it is a crossover with or remove the tag since it is actually invalid? Thank you-- Sabriel (talk) 00:21, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

L&O character Arthur Branch appears in the episode. Season Fourteen (talk) 00:48, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
Thank you so much for the clarification! It is a tad confusing though. Have you guys thought of maybe making a category for crossover characters instead of just episodes?--Sabriel (talk) 02:41, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Logo Photos[]

If I might pipe up about your copyright infringement rules, Josh Galloway's photo also appears to have a vague logo. Objections? You'd have to delete that one too. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 05:15, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Yep, that's going to have to go too. Season Fourteen (talk) 06:38, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Blanking Pages Sockpuppet[]

Unidentified user (92.40.194.220) needs immediate ban due to extensive page-erasing vandalism. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 02:18, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Episode Titles and Other Notes[]

Do you mind telling why you're erasing a few changes I made to episode pages explaining the titles' double meanings? Also, is it a problem I also add to episode notes the rips from the headlines relating to them, be it confirmed in the lists on the wiki or otherwise confirmed? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 21:22, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

I can understand clarifying some episode titles with meanings more difficult to understand (Scheherazade comes to mind), but I don't think we have to hold people's hands for titles that have commonly used words, like Manhunt. I'm sure people can figure it out for themselves, especially with the plot summaries we already have. Also, save the rips for the headlines list articles. Season Fourteen (talk) 21:28, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
It's not holding hands, generally the franchise more often than not tries to be clever by using one or two word titles, at the very most short phrase titles, with more than one meaning pertaining to the episode. That's been listed in episode pages before, there are numerous pages missing. And if you want headline rips out of episode pages, does that mean the references should be deleted from the pages where they are, or do you wanna just leave them? For example, Stocks & Bondage has Martin Frankel, Hooked questionably guesses Traci Lords. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 21:36, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Yes, remove the references. Season Fourteen (talk) 21:43, 15 September 2021 (UTC)
Would you mind discussing with me the various pages in need of such edits? Because a lot of episode have innuendo that isn't caught, especially sexual suggestion, and whether in the pages or not, there are still missing rips I can conclusively confirm are bases for the episodes. I'm not walking on eggshells only to get blocked again on slights, dude. Just tell me straight, don't react, and if I'm right, just if, not when take what I have to notify you on, please.
I can provide examples. First, I know for a fact Sophomore Jinx is partly derived from Jeanne Clery and the related Clery Act, and Misleader is derived from the affair scandal of George Roche III. As for titles, Parole Violations has the innuendo of "violations" to imply the rapes of Donna Marshall. Internal Affairs (SVU) has another rape innuendo with "internal" in the wording. Bang refers to both Ken Turner's murder and his promiscuity during his reproductive abuse, just from the word "bang". Shall I go on? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 01:47, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
IMO, two-word episode titles might need some extra clarification compared to one-word episode titles. Season Fourteen (talk) 05:09, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
There are more titles than two words with double entendre. Like, for example, in SVU Season 8 alone, Infiltrated both implies Carl Dunford's rapes and the undercover assignment, Confrontation evokes both the murder of the woman fighting for herself and the efforts for living rape victims to testify in court, and Recall involves the woman who gets Martin Trenway wrong as her rapist as well as the family friend coming forward about her rape. Again, I'm seeing these and more, would you like me to make you a list? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 06:19, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
There is absolutely no informational basis on explaining double entendres. We should focus on clarifying any terms that would be confusing to uninitiated readers, such as "mea culpa" or "in loco parentis". Season Fourteen (talk) 17:09, 16 September 2021 (UTC)
I hear what you're saying, but there are often double meanings in the episode titles that do pertain to the plotlines themselves. That's why I thought I'd try the edits I did. But I'll go back through the episodes, if I have concerns, I'll note you here.
I should also tell you for Rescue, Arleen Donoho's first name may not be given in in the credits, but she's addressed by name in the show. And can you please read the links for Jeanne Clery and George Roche III for Sophomore Jinx and Misleader accordingly? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk)
Should I assume you refuse M.O.s alone into rips from the headlines, such as "burking" in Serendipity and dioxin chloracne in Beast? ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 04:22, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
Yep. M.O.s can easily be replicated by anyone. More biographical elements are needed for the case to factor in. Season Fourteen (talk) 07:30, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Then may you please not keep your stubborn stance of assigned position and consider the list I left for ThomasBisaschi? I'm right about most of my selections, and as stated above, I'm taking it slow and emphasizing obvious ones. ContributingHelperOnTheSide (talk) 17:25, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

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